>> well, the kennedy-nixon debates created so much attention in 1960. many people think that's why ted kennedy won. if you recall ford made famously the gap that -- and then certainly by 1980, ronald reagan was very behind in the polls was just able to tidal wave over jimmy carter with quips like there you go again in a sort of staged format. since 1980, they have become part of the american landscape. >> the "new york times" recently wrote about this debate prep and the president of the united states is an awesome figure merely to share the platform with him on equal terms is the gain in stature, good performance will be gauged even better. why would any president agree to participate in an event that ultimately -- the -- because it's become now a demand, president obama suddenly bailed on debates. then, you know, he would be seeming like a poor sport. and also these debates are agreed upon long before the fall season, they're everything from the podium to the lighting, everything is worked out between the parties. >> do you think the presidential deba